Thursday, September 10, 2009
Students select Reformation documents (group B)
Please post by Sat., Sept. 12 or before as a comment which 3 documents about which you would most want to lead discussion for week 4. Sept. 17. Key and Bucholz, Sources and Debates, ch. 3 (pre-1547). Add one sentence for each document about why you like that document or think it would work well in class. (I will email you which one document you will be working on once I have your submissions.) Sign your comment with your first name and last initial.
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10 comments:
Steve F. I would like to do documents, 3.3, 3.8, or 3.9 with 3.3 being my first choice.
1. Document 3.3 is about the confessions of John Pykas of Colchester a critic of the church who was executed as a heretic in 1531.
2. Document 3.8 is about the answers the ordinaries or bishops gave to King Henry the 8th in response to document 3.7 the opening of the reformation.
3. Document 3.9 is the second answer that the bishops gave to Henry in response to document 3.7. They felt it was needed because their first response infuriated Henry by denying his authority over them
My choices are as follows:
3.12 Anne Askew's,some of my examinacions... I chose this article largely due to the fact that it deals with a martyr for the protestants
3.9 Submission of clergy,comparable to 3.8
3.8 Answer of the ordineries, these articles are important because of the contrasts in them.
Thanks,
Chris Bily
I would like to do documents 3.2, 3.4, or 3.11.
3.2 Colet's Convocation Sermon, St. Pauls's, London(Latin orig., pub.1511; trans., 1531?) I chose this document because it is showing how corrupt the pre-reformation church really was.
3.4 Henry VIII to Anne Boleyn(n.d.,ca.July 1528) I chose this one because its underlying meaning is to show how Henry VIII's faith was not only waivering in his marriage but also in the church.
3.11 Act Abolishing Diversity of Opinions (1539) I find this document interesting due to the fact that the people of England thought that because they broke from the power of the Church that they could practice their own religious beliefs. Henry VIII did not want that at all and started to persecute those who did speak out in order to make an exmple out of them.
~Amanda Burtsfield
3.12) My 3.5) My choice would be 3.5 because its about the "king's great matter" and how he feels it is "moral" to divorce is wife and not b/c he just wants to.
3.4) My other choice would be 3.4 solely b/c it is a letter written to Anne Boleyn from Henry VIII before they were married.
last choice is 3.12. I like it b/c she is about to die and she is calling out the bishops on all thier wrongdoings.
I would like to do either documents 3.4, 3.7, or 3.10, but I don't have a particular preference for one over the other.
3.5 Cardinal Campeggio, Papal Legate in England, to Jacobo…
This letter looked intriguing because it relates to some of the issues that we talked about on Thursday, and it gets to the heart of the issue about why Henry VIII wanted a divorce and sparked the divide between him and the Catholic Church.
3.7 Edward Hall, “The Opening of the Reformation Parliament”
This was interesting because it was an argument for reformation that wasn’t based on the King’s word alone, but was from those seated in Parliament.
3.10 Pontefract Articles
It is important to look at the response that the people have on big changes like what Henry VIII pushed through. This document shows that not everyone followed him in his views, despite his being King.
Thanks,
Michelle M.
I would like to do documents 3.3, 3.8, and 3.11.
My first choice would be 3.3 the Confession of John Pykas of Colchester. This document was interesting due to its dealing with heresey and accusations within the Church.
My second would be document 3.11 Act Abolishing Diversity of Opinions. I enjoyed the freedom that Henry VIII's reformation encouraged.
My third choice would be 3.8 The Answer of the Ordinaries. I found the King's charges interesting and I'm curious to learn more about the bishop's argument.
Thanks
Chadd E.
Craig Dennis
I would like to do the documents of 3.4, 3.11, and 3.10 with 3.4 being first.
3.4 is the letter Henry VIII wrote to Anne Boleyn which was written at the time that he was married to Catherine of Aragon, which had him questioning the legitimacy of the church that sanctioned the marriage.
3.11 The document reflects Henry VIII's views of what the church should be.
3.10 The document shows that Thomas Cromwell sent out a commission to investigate the monastaries and their wealth and practices.
Amanda B 3.2 Colet's Convocation Sermon, St. Pauls's. Amanda notes “This document...is showing how corrupt the pre-reformation church really was.” Yes, but note that this is the Church attempting to reform from within; is that the Reformation?
Steve F 3.3 Steve notes this “is about the confessions of John Pykas of Colchester a critic of the church who was executed as a heretic in 1531.” Note that we don’t know Pykas was executed (Bilney was) and that this dates from 1527 so he is being persecuted by Henry VIII’s Church before an English Reformation.
Jessica K 3.4–3.5 [Jake and Michelle are sharing 3.5: can you decide between the two of you how that works?] Jake likes the “letter written to Anne Boleyn from Henry VIII before they were married,” which is good, but it is so short, that I suggest adding 3.5 “about the ‘king's great matter’ and how he feels it is ‘moral’ to divorce is wife and not b/c he just wants to.” How does the Queen feel about entering a nunnery? Would that have worked?
Michelle M 3.5–3.6 [Jake and Michelle are sharing 3.5: can you decide between the two of you how that works?] 3.5 “gets to the heart of the issue about why Henry VIII wanted a divorce and sparked the divide between him and the Catholic Church.” and 3.6 carries the debate within the Church further as Rome’s emissaries come to realize what will happen (Lutherans waiting in the wings) if they don’t come to some arrangement.
Craig D 3.10 Although Craig asserts that this “document shows that Thomas Cromwell sent out a commission to investigate the monastaries and their wealth and practices,” the Pontefract articles are in fact the conservative/Catholic rebels’ demands against the changes of Thomas Cromwell, and other aspects of the Reformation, as well as economic/government issues. Why rebel in 1636?
Chadd E 3.11 Act Abolishing Diversity of Opinions. Chadd’s comment that “I enjoyed the freedom that Henry VIII's reformation encouraged,” is, I take it, sarcastic. Note, however, that this moment, ca. 1539-40, is when Henry was being swayed by the conservative faction that wanted to take the Church back towards Catholicism. Indeed, are these points more Catholic or Protestant?
Chris B 3.12 Anne Askew's examinacions Chris notes that this document “deals with a martyr for the protestants.” but note that she was, technically persecuted/prosecuted by the Protestants. That is, she was one who wanted to take the Reformation further; how does one control the Church once one begins reform?
whoops. left off a line: Christine M. 3.1 I don’t have a comment from Christine yet. But I chose this document because it is important to have a sense of how the pre-Reformation Church might have looked to someone that liked it.
I am doing document 3.1 "The State of Melford Church...and I, Roger Martyn Did Know It"
This document shows the views of a more typical church member and explains how the cerimonal practices/events were important spiritually, but mostly socially and to the community, even if they are being looked back upon and romanticized as events from Martyn's past.
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